China the Beautiful

Aolung · Joined: 10 Jul 2002 Posts: 1037

Friends,

what's your opinion on this line (probably Wang Wei: A Banquet at Tao's Pavilion)? Can you make sense of the word dan3 - gall (the seat of courage)?

(UTF-8 )

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Alfred

chinapage · Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:56 pm Post subject:

No, this is from one of Li Bei's poems.

http://www.chinapage.com/libai/liba19.html

Ming

chinapage · Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:07 pm Post subject:

宴陶家亭子
作者：李白

曲巷幽人宅，高门大士家。
池开照胆镜，林吐破颜花。
绿水藏春日，青轩秘晚霞。
若闻弦管妙，金谷不能夸。

Aolung · Joined: 10 Jul 2002 Posts: 1037

Ming,

sllee · Joined: 10 Jul 2002 Posts: 731 Location: USA

Alfred,

http://www.guoxue.com/gxnews/ddzg/dd001.htm

This might be some clue to your question.

I guess it originates from the term 肝胆照人. (bosom friends have nothing to hide)
_________________
SL Lee
http://www.asiawind.com

Aolung · Joined: 10 Jul 2002 Posts: 1037

Siu-Leung,

thanks for this hint (which, etymologically, appears to be almost as obscure as that poem's line).

As for that view discussed below (UTF-8 ), I know of those fundamental errors of comprehension in that work of tremendous influence on the western view of Chinese art and poetry (via Hans Bethge even affecting Gustav Mahler's work!):

sllee · Joined: 10 Jul 2002 Posts: 731 Location: USA

Dear Alfred,

Ming posted some funny translation of signs in Beijing, including Kentucky Fried Chicken ads. It was so hilarious, only to be matched by the translation of Li Bai's poems in this case.

Translating Chinese poem is a tremendously challenging job. The concise and precise Chinese language with hidden historical legends, proverbs, idioms scare off a lot of Chinese translators just to re-interpret old poems in modern language. Only ignorant translators foreign to the language have the guts to do it just because of their ignorance.

Heaven knows how many bad translation versions are circulating that lead to not only misunderstanding of the poems themselves, but Chinese culture as a whole.

Alas, we can't retroactively correct many of these mistakes that have caused diplomatic failures and millions of lives, just because of some bad translation.
_________________
SL Lee
http://www.asiawind.com

Aolung · Joined: 10 Jul 2002 Posts: 1037

Dear Siu-Leung,

... and funny enough, more than an entire century adored "Chinese culture" (-> 'chinoiserie') on the base of that misunderstanding ha ha!

And you're right, really adequately translating/conveying these ancient pieces of poetry into modern language (even Chinese!) is moreorless impossible. (In the best case, it's an approximation).

Alfred

chinapage · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: 胆镜

胆镜

A mirror can only reflect the surface of a person. It cannot
pennetrate into the body.

Modern science now has stethoscope, x-ray, MRI, colonoscpe
that has the ability to look inside the body of person.

There is a myth about a magic mirror which can look inside
a person's body to see his heart, lung and gall bladder.

This magic mirror was said to exist in the a palace of Qin Dynasty.
With it, one can "see" that person's characters, such as
honesty, integrity, etc.

It is called 胆镜.

See http://www.chinapage.com/general/myth/mirror.html

This is quoted in Li Bai's poem.

P.S. I just came back from a colonoscopy examination yesterday.
The examination costs US$2,100.
PPS. Most Chinese have difficulty pronouncing 'colonoscopy.'

Ming

Aolung · Joined: 10 Jul 2002 Posts: 1037

Dear Ming,

thanks for the enlightening reply that was really helpful! Now, how should
that line be rendered concisely/poetically in a western translation Question

Impossible?

BTW, your chengyu-dictionary referred to seems to be quite good!

Hopefully, all is well!

Best regards

Alfred